"I don't totally disagree with you," said Pipes, noting the Bush administration has been "overly ambitious" in Iraq" and that he hoped the U.S. would "reduce our intense engagement" for a larger Iraqi role. He said Iraq is "looming as the key issue of the next couple of months" and that "the Bush Administration, frankly, has not been up to speed."

Ledeen pushed the perspective further back, arguing that "Iran has been the central issue from the beginning, but nobody wants to deal with that. Iran has been the key sponsor of terrorism."

Ledeen, who thinks Iran already has nuclear weapons, described the Iran leaders as "they're crazy but they{re not stupid." They have been able to act because no western government has acted to stop the regime, despite the West's knowledge of Iran{s plans and statements.

"It's like watching a psychodrama in slow motion and we know the outcome," Ledeen said in the most sobering moment of the afternoon. "We'll have to go after the Iranians." The framework for that is not a war against Islamic fundamentalism, but rather part of the older war against tyranny, with Ledeen noting that 70 percent of Iranians oppose the regime, hence suggest a willing audience for pro-democracy efforts by the U.S.

Any thinking about moves against Iran always involve Israel, the relentless focus of Iran{s plans. Will Israel attack, as it did against Iraq{s nuclear facilities in 1981? Will Israel team up with the U.S. or do the dirty work needed on behalf of the U.S., and more distantly, the supine Europeans?

Ledeen, again, provided the strongest thoughts, doubting that the U.S. or Israel would attack Iran and also doubting whether such attacks would even work, since he thinks the two countries lack non-nuclear weapons that could stop the Iranian program.

Ultimately, he said, nobody can know the consequences of an attack on Iran, or another attack on the U.S. Hence, the abyss looms, with no sense of its depth or a bridge across it.

The session, before a crowd of about 300 people, touched on other issues as well, beginning with the liberalesque question from Medved, who described himself as "a punk liberal activist (who became) a loveable conservative curmudgeon."

Responses to Medved's questions showed the range of beliefs among Jewish conservatives, with pointed disagreements with the Bush Administration's performance. Pipes expressed his concerns about Iraq, and when asked about tax cuts, Mona Charen said that Republicans in Congress "have failed to take the spending problems as seriously as they should," which she found "disappointing."

"Republicans have lost a tremendous amount of moral authority by not sticking to their principles" of tax cuts and lower spending," she said.

Panelists also lamented the Jewish bashing conservative Christians in the U.S., led most vocally by Abe Foxman of the Anti-Defamation League. Ledeen commented, "Picking fights with Christians is insane. Christians are more pro-Israel than the Jews are." Charen echoed the point, noting, "So many Jews side with people who have nothing good to say about America. I find that reprehensible."