When I studied abroad, it was clear that all of my classmates were to the left of even the Democrat mainstream. My husband suggested that I keep my politics to myself until I had made some friends. Well, after I had made a few friends, I piped up with a conservative opinion. I wish I had taken a picture of the shock and horror that flashed across their faces. The other side had invaded their ranks! One of my friends even told me that it was smart of me not to reveal my politics right off the bat because she would have never befriended me if she had known I was a...gasp...Bush supporter.

Fern, the number of stories I have heard like that would fill a long book. In fact, I have tried to sell that book.....

Judith,

I have run into this so many times. I think of it as a spiritual disease, which may explain why the left is more prone to it than the right. People who lack a religious sense tend more than most to invest their egos in their opinions (since they have nothing, really, that transcends the self). Thus they experience disagreement as disrespect, as a personal attack. As you point out, it is sad.

I like how you say that, Mike.

It's a timely subject, with the holiday season approaching as well. I'm not sure if "friend" is the right word, but I do stay in touch with a very small number of flaming lib/rad friends I used to be very close with, including one who lusts for Bush's impeachment and another who is very close friends with Code Pink activists. But I certainly do *not* confide in them as I once did. I've also let certain others fall by the wayside.

Would rather have an elephant in the living room than a donkey.

Your argument is entirely disingenuous cherry-picking nonsense...did it ever occur to you that (1) so many Dems, whose party is utterly X'd out of any policy-making decisions in Washington - because said party doesn't have majorities in either house - might not be hapless participants in a grand game of coincidental anger, but may be symbolic of many, many pissed-off Dems out there? (Even if it didn't occur to you, the answer is yes, it ain't coincidence, there's a reason for it.) As for (2), which clearly wouldn't occur to you, I can tell you that the viciousness of the Bush administration on every level - partisan knife-wielding, warmongering, lawbreaking, torture, rampant illegal detention, making America vastly less safe than it was pre-9/11 - is another reason we Dems are, um, kind of upset, shall we say, at Bush and his merry band of wreckers...they are demonstrably worse than any other administration in our nation's history; they are toxic to our future; they are not your normal politicking Bozos, they are destroyers, and even though you can't see that (because you're seriously self-deluding), well, we can see it - we the American people, that is.

I also have lost friends in the era of Bush the Minor, and currently do suffer some problems with my father. This has never happened before, not even during the Clinton years, when he made a second profession out of railing at Clinton, red-faced and apoplectic. That was bad; this is worse.

Bush must go. Republicans must go. They are going. Tell me, what's the weather like on the wrong side of history?

I have an aunt and uncle that I haven't seen or spoken to since Christmas 2002. They had spent years ridiculing my parents (voting for a 2-bit actor, etc) so when my uncle started in on me, I didn't let it pass. He supports the Dems because they support the unions and vice versa. Then he insulted my father by claiming that the ONLY reason my father had any success in life was because he was a union member. Problem was, I remember when the union tried to strip my dad of several years seniority to protect some union flunky that had fewer years than my dad. I also know how my dad continuously strove to better himself through any training available to help him do his job better. Personally, I think the union held him back.
Anyway, my aunt and uncle stayed until after dinner, though neither spoke a word, then left and didn't speak to my parents until Easter. Now my mom's older sister and brother both died years ago and this aunt is her only remaining sibling. Four months of attending the same church, but without the daily phone calls, etc. nearly killed my mother. My aunt finally started talking to her again, but was still outrage at me. She has since told my mother that I am no longer her nephew.
I've offered to speak with them, but my mother refuses. She doesn't want to risk losing what contact remains.
I wish they could read this article, but I doubt they'd accept it if they did.
Sorry for the long post.

You thought you were in a project meeting or a coffee klatch or a dinner party, and all of a sudden it has turned into the Communist Youth League Self-Criticism Session.

A-frickin'-men. I'm right of center and I work in a very left wing environment and I can't count how many times a meeting turned into a political discussion. I generally just keep my mouth shut (which has probably damned me) because I have to work with these people. Some of them got into a yelling match during the 2004 campaign season because one of them didn't hate Bush (wasn't going to vote for him, but he didn't hate the man). The Bush-haters were so enraged that this guy didn't hate Bush like they did they started a big argument which prompted an e-mail from HR to the company requesting people respect each other's political views. I doubt these people would accept my views with open arms.

I have experienced this myself on several levels. However, not only am I a conservative, but I am also a currently serving Soldier in the Army. I usually get remarks like," You're so nice, I would never had any idea" when people learn of my profession. The left in my opinion sees itself as a direct line to the "people". So those who oppose them, oppose the "people" and therefore are illegitimate. Those on the republican/libertarian right see the left as making logical errors ie. 2+2 =5. One does not get emotionally upset at a math/logic error. Those on the left see the right as being invalid from the start and being in opposition to the "common good". I actually had an leftist acquaintance tell me that she "forgave" me for being in the Service. Unbelievable!

I think the plain and simple explanation for all this is that on the left politics is a substitute for religion. Or to put it another way, we think they are clueless. They think we are evil.

I have to admit as a Republican, I would probably never (could never) have a deep, long-term relationship with a Democrat. My sister is a dyed-in-the-wool Dem, but family is an exception. Of course, I don't see her that often because of distance and if I did, we'd probably avoid political talk most of the time.

I work around some Dems though and I think they sense that I'm not one of them because I don't nod in agreement at their bombastic opinions.

I'll also agree that never, ever have I heard someone just voice a pro-republican or pro-Bush opinion before a work meeting began but I've heard pro-dem opinions all the time.

The number of times I've had to bite my tongue...

Posted for Mike Silverman who was getting bounced for some reason known only to my spam filter:

That is pretty pathetic not associating with someone because of their political opinions. It is as sad as, say a Mets fan who would refuse to play p*ker with a Yankees fan or something...there's nothing wrong with some good-hearted ribbing among friends, but totally avoiding someone due to their politics? No way.

Still, if I knew that a co-worker of mine was, say a supporter of Hamas, even if he kept his politics to himself at work, I certainly wouldn't want to hang out with him on a business trip. Likewise, if someone down the hall in my apartment building expressed his opinion against same-s*x marriage to the degree that he refused to be polite to my partner, I think I would be justifed in turning down an offer to play cards with him.

I suppose there's always an exception if someone is rude or pushy about it...I mean, a pushy Democrat or Republican is as obnoxious as a rude sports fan who yells "your team s*cks" -- but what about the Hamas supporter or a similar situation?

I discuss politics with no one in my family, save my parents and my siblings and my one brother-in-law (conservative Republicans and conservative Democrats, repectively; all of whom voted for George W. Bush both times, as did I)--the jackpot for a black family. My parents converted even earlier than their children, having voted for Bush the Elder and Bob Dole while we all voted for Bill Clinton.

The last time I was home, my other family asked me about my job. I told them what I did without giving them the name of Pajamas Media ("editor for an online publication"). However, I gave one of my young cousins (28) a little bit more. I had the feeling that I might be able to get her to at least look at a different POV and, with her steely personality, she might bring the others on. (When I told her that the site was deemed conservative and that I wouldn't discuss with her mom--my dad's sister--she laughed and merely said "probably not a good idea." So I'm guessing there's an open mind there.) Hope springing, and all that.

Here in Utah, the reddest of the red states, you've got the opposite extreme: isolated liberals floating in a sea of conservatives. So, naturally, one might expect the same conflicts as those described above, only in reverse... right?

Wrong.

Where I work, a small company, everyone (as far as I know) is conservative. When a new guy was hired, we avoided talking politics at all around him, until we got to know him better. We didn't want to risk offending the guy. Turns out he's sorta half and half, probably more liberal than conservative. But we all get along just fine, and even have those wacky "logical and friendly" political chats you guys seem to only dream about. We wouldn't THINK of demeaning a liberal co-worker just because he or she thinks differently. At other places in Utah where I've worked (4 or 5 in all, sometimes very large organizations), it was the same.

My wife, her sister, and her husband, are all conservative, too. I doubt they vote straight Republican ticket, but they damn well didn't vote for Kerry. Not that I asked, but you get a sense of these things. Anyway, my wife's mother is the hard-core liberal of the group. We avoid political discussions like the plague, when we can, but sometimes she can't restrain herself. Even when she knows we won't agree! She gets even more angry when we refuse to buy in to the liberal point du jour, and if we decide to actually argue the conservative case... well, we've learned over the years to cautiously try to change the subject before things get really bad. So why does she insist on starting these arguments?

Over here, in the heart of "Jesusland West," I have yet to encounter a group of conservatives bullying someone into thinking their way. I don't even know the political leanings of most of the people I talk to every day, even though, more often than not, it turns out to be "conservative" once conversation eventually heads that way.

If other Utahns have encountered otherwise, I'd be interested in hearing about it. I hope this extends beyond my own personal experience. My experience here, coupled with the stories I have read on this page, add up to an eye-opening - and disturbing - glimpse into the liberal psyche.

Is it really that bad out there in blue territory?

linked here from The Anchoress:

i reside in southern california. i am a Japanese American female, licensed psychotherapist working as a mediator for the Superior Courts. Because of these attributes it is assumed that i must be left of center in my political and social views. Oh, i am also one of those Christian types too.

I work in a professional setting and i am continuously amazed at the bias, prejudice and hostility openly expressed by my colleagues against all things Republican/Conservative/Spiritual.

I wonder at how they completely overlook the irony in their vocal castigation regarding closed minded, intolerant right wingers,fascist neocons and religious types. In one recent circumstance I experienced what was a frightening realization.

With four of my closer colleagues i came to understand something i have never been able to mentally comprehend. How could/did neighbors and friends turn in their neighbors and friends to the Gestapo/SS/Third Reich collaborators?

Individuals i thought at least respected my right to my personal beliefs were vehemently attacking me as i drove all of us home from a distant conference. The intensity of their belief that the religious and neocons are ruining our nation and are the same as Islamic extremists if not worse. These are educated and generally kind people. But none would consider that their views are seriously skewed. I know of no one in my spiritual community who wants to take up arms and kill in the name of Yeshua...or convert anyone by point of sword :) There are no plans for a religious Theocracy...most of my fellow Christians lean to a Libertarian political view of live and let live with as little government involvement as possible. That is until decisions are being made in the community and ultimately through the courts that impacts our ability to freedom of practice and expression... such as Baccalauriate celebration to bring God's blessings, maintain historical symbols in county seals, attempts to exclude all Judaeo/Christian values, symbols on campus in the community but hypersensitivity to anything Muslim.

My intellect, reasoning and psychological health was questioned in my support of Pres. Bush and the policy to fight a war against Islam extremists. Actually stated, "how can you,a woman of color ever support the policies of the neocon Republican party? The moral equivalency given to all countries compared to America and Israel was completely illogical.

it was so intense that afterwards, alone, i realized that anyone of these, my closest colleagues could and would turn me in if it ever became a legal requirement... they'd do it believing they were doing it for the "good" of the country or something... i have not quite recovered from this realization...

i don't know what to make of the changes in what use to be opportunities for civil discourse. i am hopeful that the atmosphere will mellow in the coming years but i fear it will intensify as the internet continues to illuminate so much that has not been available through the usual media sources and i think the extreme left loses more and more validity in our society.

sorry...didn't mean to ramble on so... glad i found this site.

At the local JCC I witnessed a middle-aged woman crying. She had been kicked out of her tennis group after many years, because they found out she voted for Bush.

I am afraid people will actually boycott my business if I express my poltical views.

"Is it really that bad out there in blue territory?"

Since you asked: Yes.

I have archived a humungous number of accounts from other bloggers and comment threads, since 2003. Everything said here has been written about many many times. Also, if you read Neo neocon, she has written about this a lot. Much worse happened to her than to me. Look in her sidebar under "A Mind is a Difficult Thing to Change."

Here in NYC, I notice that conservative/Republicans behave as they do in Utah. I have had genial debates about abortion, for example, with the anti-choice person making his point so carefully, so politely, because he wants to win me over and keep my friendship. and I make my pro-choice point so carefully and thoughtfully, because I want to be understood and I like my friend.

KJ,

Quick report from the SF Bay Area: it's not *all* wacko here, but... in any normal social circuit you will sooner or later rub up against reflexive and sometimes bizarre contempt for Bush &/or conservatives:

An "Alec Baldwin moment": in a finer Italian restaurant a loud-mouthed guy at the next table boasts about a disagreement he had with "some rightwing @**hole". (He's entitled to his opinion but did he have to let it rip so that the neighboring parties have to hear it?)

A "chattering classes moment": at a dinner party in the home of a tenured Berkeley prof, she doesn't think twice about dropping a visceral comment about how good it would be for Congress to be rid of Tom DeLay. (Again, she's entitled to her opinion, but the presumption that I would have been in agreement with her suggests she's rather insulated and unchallenged in her professional and personal circles.)

A "dating game moment" (a little a la Judith's experience): exchanging follow-up, get-to-know-you emails via the JDate service, I tell Ms. X I'd consider voting for Condoleeza Rice for prez. Her reply is "Oh, so you're hot for Condi" -- again, if that reflexive taunt is her idea of fun banter, it's not what I consider starting off on the right foot.

I've noticed the anti-GOP feeling in Torah study groups. Somehow somebody sees a connection between the parashah or other materials with politics and that leads, always, to an anti-Bush comment, but never anything anti-Democratic. This creates a very negative feeling and sours me on the group -- I came for Torah, not for a liberal group grope.

I was in other circumstances recently with a group, and for reasons too complicated to explain here announced, rather dramatically, that I supported Lieberman over Lamont in Connecticut for Senate. The gasps of shock and horror were audible -- I was afraid I would be bodily hurled out a window for the betrayal of (assumed) group values.

I have a friend who is Left of center and at times she exasperates me with her rants.

I have a friend who is Left of center and at times she exasperates me with her rants.

Judith, I'm not sure if one of your comments up above was directed at my comment or not (about not having deep relationships with Dems), but I'll say this, just in case.

I have had friends and do have friends that are Dems. But most of them are at least willing to hear what a Republican thinks. Usually we have other things in common that we do enjoy and focus on those things and avoid political arguments. However, I admit that I prefer to be around people who share my world-view and Democrats, by and large, do not.

I do think the virulent, obnoxious Democrats (which this thread is about) pretty much discount themselves from having meaningful relationships or communications with anyone from the 'other side'. Of course, that's probably intentional.

My mother, politically conservative, and her only sister, both in their late 60s broke off most of their friendly communications a couple of years ago over politics. My aunt was offended that mom did not agree with the "Bush derangement syndrome" type stuff she was e-mailing.

I felt I was wry in commenting: "I don't know how you two got by the first 68 years together."

I never could abide my aunt's portentious liberal pronouncements, but when two elderly sisters break up over this it strikes me the cost of True Belief is beyond measure.

Refreshing to read what is reported here. I have a brother (dyed in the wool Democrat) who rants at me every time he calls me to talk to me. It is refreshing to know that my moonbat brother is typical for a lib. I was beginning to think I was enduring this sort of thing alone and that there was something abnormal about my poor brother.

Thanks.

I think Bob F is very close to the truth.

Think about the history of politics. Across most of human history, politics and religion have at the very least been joined at the hip, if not one and the same thing. It wasn't until the Enlightenment that we began to see that the two can and should be related, but not identical (religious belief should inform political action, but never vice versa).

The far left has abandoned this separation. Like it or not, for the far left their politics and their religion are one and the same.

What is terrifying is that they are heading down the path of violating the hard won protections of religious freedom that we fought so hard and for so long to create.

Champions of diversity, they want lovers and friends just like themselves. *snicker*

I lost a close friend after the 2004 election--I was the best man in his wedding!--after he went off on my blog when I posted my relief that W was in for a second turn. My primary political motivators are a) national security and b) the economy, but for days he kept posting comment after comment about how I was a "fundie racist bigot" killing people for oil and putting the babies of poor brown people on the menu in the Halliburton lunch room, etc. I finally told him not to talk to me until he could have a conversation about facts and issues, instead of parroting his litany of MoveOn.org bumper stickers. Haven't heard from him since.

So I suppose that, unlike the anecdotes in the articles, in this case the conservative did the "shunning," but it wasn't for his political views as much as his rude, childish behavior.

My wife and I are devout evangelicals as well as conservatives in the liberal island of Austin. Our best friends are a couple where the wife is an atheist jew and he's agnostic good old boy. Our teenage daughters best friends include a reformed jew (different family)and a muslim. We usually avoid talking politics and religion but life is so much bigger that we have no trouble having fun and being close. We have other liberal freinds and they seem to think all conservatives are evil we idiots except us. But we're frequently the only conservatives they actually know. Pretty much all the conservatives I know have similar attitudes to us and don't think all liberals are evil jerks - misguided and wrong perhaps, but we don;t make it so personal.

You know, I think Mike Silverman has a point with the Hamas analogy, though I'm not sure he was aware of making it: We (Republicans, conservatives, libertarians, and/or hawks) generally think of those on the other side of the political divide as fellows, not as the enemy. We may think they're misguided, ignorant, or lack a sense of perspective (or maybe none of the above but simply in disagreement with us). But we don't think of them as evil.

But some, maybe many, Democrats do think of us that way. Not just as incorrect but as evil. One woman quoted in the article said that her Bush-voting mother was the face of the enemy. I'm beginning to suspect that they think of us the way you'd think of Hamas, or Nazis (since there are some who sympathize with Hamas): not as mistaken or in disagreement with the consensus opinion, but as evil. The commenter Nathan Hammersmith gives me some of this feeling: the extreme rhetoric is not limited to politicians, but includes ordinary voters: "Republicans must go."

You wouldn't stop and think before spouting vociferous anti-Nazi opinions in a workplace or social setting; you certainly wouldn't think "Better not, there might be a Nazi here who'd be offended," and you'd be shocked and upset if one spoke up, that such a person was a co-worker or associate. If you saw a photo of that guy with the mustache on someone's refrigerator, you probably wouldn't let your children play at that house either, and you wouldn't be apologetic about it.

Has it reached the point where they think like that about us? Where someone who votes for a Republican looks like the face of evil?

That's why they are always surprised at Republican electoral victories. The media, the cocktail parties, the conversation on the train, in that kind of groupthink atmosphere you'd think there were three Republicans in the world and they all lived in Texas. Then the results come in and the illusion is snapped, tear and panic ensue, and are followed, naturally, by conspiracy theories. And then the train goes 'round again. It's the Stalinist style but without an actual Stalin to kill the "bad elements". It just shows that the religious instinct is strong in most people - it just manifests in different ways.

As another post-9/11 ex-lefty, boy does this conversation ring true for me!

I hate to say it, but I've become one of those few conservatives who's now shunning my old liberal friends. No dramatic declarations, just letting people drift off (which was happening anyway). I just got sick of their presumptious attitude (we must all think alike, even though they know I don't) and sudden, un-called-for political outbursts. We don't have to be carbon copies, but frankly, I want friends who I actually share something with--what a concept!

As for romantic relationships and politics, more power to those who can make "mixed marriages" work, but I couldn't do it. Now that I've found someone who mostly shares my views, it's such a breath of fresh air. The freedom to just be yourself at all times is a wonderful thing...

Tom, I also have liberal Dem friends, but we don't discuss politics, by their request.

Jaed, I agree. I try to be empathetic in general and I tried to imagine how we must look from their POV. If they do see our politics as evil, it would make sense to act as you are describing. They would see a spouse or friend or relative turning into a racist or nazi or whatever is your worst example of beyond the pale of acceptable views.

I have left a few friends who went the other way. One leftist Jewish friend began spouting extreme anti-Israel views. I mean really extreme. She and I had an angry exchange and I just decided it wasn't worth it. But we weren't best friends, so maybe if we had been I would have tried to keep her. It takes a lot for me to cut someone off.

The emotional heat involved here may be evidence of significant defensiveness, i.e., cognitive dissonance might be involved. They feel so personally threatened by opposing opinions that they must attack and avoid them. Because they know in their hearts that their own opinions are so wrong.

I've mentioned this before, here:
http://www.keshertalk.com/archives/2006/04/flight93heroes.php#comment-5743

and repeat it because it is apropos:

It's not just the Left. Brenden Phibbs, a battalion surgeon in a World War Two armored brigade, related the following incident in his book, The Other Side Of Time:

His battalion had captured a number of German prisoners of war who were lined up for processing. One of them identified himself in very German-accented English as an OSS agent and asked to speak to an American officer immediately. The guards took him out of the line just before he was attacked by the other German POW's.

A long argument followed between a Southern officer and several other American officers about what to do. The German had explained that he was anti-Nazi and had volunteered from POW camp to join the OSS and be sent back behind German lines to be picked up and assigned to a German unit to learn intelligence information for the OSS, which he would try to escape with and cross the lines back to the American side, which he had just done with information about German positions, supplies, units, etc.

The Southerner, who was extremely racist about blacks, Jews, etc., kept vehemently claiming that the man was a fake and should be put back in line, which puzzled the other officers. Eventually the other officers, one of whom was Phibbs, decided to send the guy to division HQ for interrogation.

Phibbs asked the German what he thought of the discussion. The German replied that it was something he was used to - that some people were so convinced that everyone had wicked motives, because they did themselves, that they were both offended by, and frightened to the core of their being, by undeniable examples of goodness and self-sacrifice.

What you relate by Ted Rall is an example of this. And I personally experienced an example of it 6-7 years ago on a dying pre-internet bulletin board system called GEnie, for the General Electric Network, which had a forum for science-fiction writers called the SFRT (its internet successor is www.sff.net).

I had related, in one of its topics, a newspaper story about a former Bosnian Muslim girl joining the US Marine Corps. She as a teenage refugee in the U.S. had been baby-sitting for money, but refused payment from one family upon learning that the father was a Marine sergeant. He asked why and was told that she owed the Marines her life and her mother's life, and that her ambition was to join the Marines as soon as she turned 18.

It turned out that, when a group of Serb thugs were about to murder a weeping & wailing group of Bosnian women and children, including the girl and her mother, a voice shouted from the darkness, "Throw down your weapons - you are surrounded by the United States Marines!" The Serbs did so immediately whereupon two US Marine sergeants assigned to the U.N. walked out of the darkness with rifles trained on the Serbs (who heavily outnumbered them, but hadn't known it initially, and were certainly intimidated by the USMC's reputation), made them move away from their weapons, and had the women pile into what became a very crowded Hummer.

The women were hidden at a nearby Marine base and smuggled into the U.S. against all military regulations. The Marines also obtained green cards for all of them.

The girl insisted on telling her story to the press when she turned 18 and joined the Marines.

I typed the whole story into a GEnie post. A writer named Lois Tilton took mortal offense at this and insisted that the whole thing was a fake, though other participants in that thread found confirming stories.

Eventually I told Lois that she was speaking with "Satan's Voice" (a reference to the great SF story, "Soldier, Ask Not" by Gordon Dickson), as well as a real-life Christian term, albeit one used these days only among those with an allegedly extremist theology (because they believe there is a Hell as well as Heaven).

But you find such behavior in all sorts of people united by one thing - it is a matter of faith with them that all people are rotten because they are themselves, and it bothers them to be reminded of what they are not."

Thanks to Jeremiah for providing us with live specimen.

They must think we are evil because they think their POV is so indisputable, that disagreement is perverse.
When they tell me I'm not listening, I say I'm listening, just not agreeing.
My sister burst into tears in a public restaurant when I told her I planned to vote for Nixon(1968).
Life to me is much bigger than politics. I always hope my expressing my views won't cost me friends, but I will almost always express myself because my parents taught that silence implies consent.
Joe

Reminded of the saying:

Conservatives think Liberals have bad ideas,
but
Liberals think Conservatives are bad people.

Well, I guess in my younger days in college, one of the things I had done from time to time was to court and, eventually end up being physically intimate with a young attractive thing. Afterwards (sometime the next morning) I would let them know that I was a Republican. It was fascinating to see the range of responses - "I can't believe I just slept with a Republican" or "I've never slept with a Republican before"

I've never had anyone throw me out because of that, although when I've tried the reverse, I've had people with whom I was developing a rapport with potential start to back off once a difference in political affiliation came to light.

Although, honestly, in neither case did the events reflect the vehemence described in the article or commentary above.

This is really painful to read. The rifts between me and several of my sisters (Democrats all) have been going on for years now and are basically concretized at this point. Since I became a Jew at about the same time I became a Republican, it's hard to tell which bothered them more, or if the combination was just too much for them to bear. I'm only barely in touch with one of the four of them. It still hurts, and with every election it seems to worsen.

The article reminds me of the first two times I really ran into this type of thing (or at least the first times that I noticed). Both instances happened while I was going to school at IU in Bloomingon, IN.
The first happened in the fall of 1999. My girlfriend at the time and I were sitting on a couch ,watching TV, and I stopped on a news program. They popped up a little later about the Lewinsky scandal. I sighed, shook my head, and made some remark to the effect that I thought it was wrong for a man in power to take advantage of a girl who was both many years younger, and very much subordinate to him in terms of authority. I said this in kind of an offhand matter but I will never forget the look on her face when she heard what I said. She turns to me with the shocked and utterly floored expression and says:'You're a REPUBLICAN!!!' I had absolutly nothing to say in turn to this. I stammered something about being more conservative than really politically affiliated with one party or another (except by default). I quickly tried to change the subject before I said something I would regret, still pretty astonished by the reaction.
Thereafter I tried pretty stringently to avoid talking politics with her because at that time, it was all Bill Clinton, all the time. And let me just say, as a Conservative, it is creepy when the girl you are going out with (or any woman for that matter) speaks of Clinton in really glowing, almost lustful terms.
The second time I encountered this type of thinking was on the day of Bush's first inaugeration. I had gone in to pay rent at my apartment complex office. The apartment manager who was there was watching me fill out my check for the rent and said: 'So, what did you think of the Inaugeration?'(he said it without any heat just completely honest curiosity). I kind of made a non-commital grunt (not really making any kind of inflection either, this was after the whole Florida debacle so I was thoroughly OD'ed on politics at this point (wasn't everyone?))
He jumps back with this angry and self-righteous 'Yeah, I feel the same way!!" I was shocked yet again because the change in his demeanor was so marked. I had not even really (to my mind at least) commited myself about the proposition at all, but he assumed I agreed with him 100% that Bush had "Stolen" the election. I handed him the rent check, told him thanks and left.
I have been in political debates with people of opposing views before and since, but from about the time of Clinton forward it is as if one side or the other (or both) starts the argument already assuming much of the discussion (the stating of positions, reasoned argument, gentle back and forth) is over and it is on to the name calling.
People are odd.

I've noticed the anti-GOP feeling in Torah study groups. Somehow somebody sees a connection between the parashah or other materials with politics and that leads, always, to an anti-Bush comment, but never anything anti-Democratic. This creates a very negative feeling and sours me on the group -- I came for Torah, not for a liberal group grope.

See this post for an illustration of cherry-picking Torah to make a point.

This article and the comments really hit the nail on the head. I am amused by how many people have the same experiences I have. I am a socially liberal, small government, low tax libertarian living in Venice, California and working in the entertainment business. I voted for George Bush twice and, while I believe he has many shortcomings, I don't believe he or conservatives are bad people.

That being said, the one thing that has always amazed me is that people here always assume that you agree with their hateful beliefs about conservatives. It is truly amazing how people will say things at work or in social settings that are unbelievably offensive without even considering that some of the people to whom they are speaking may not agree with their bile.

This trait is a direct result of liberal narcisissm. I have had conversations where their eyes get as big as saucers when I gently suggest that there may be another point of view that differs from theirs. Not only are they too ignorant to respond with factually based arguments, they literally are taken aback by the concept of another point of view.

That being said, the one thing that has always amazed me is that people here always assume that you agree with their hateful beliefs about conservatives. It is truly amazing how people will say things at work or in social settings that are unbelievably offensive without even considering that some of the people to whom they are speaking may not agree with their bile.

Kind of like anecdotes I have heard from people with some of their Muslim or European friends, when they bring up Jews.

An example which shows that incivility isn't limited to the left -- A blog friend of mine posted this recently on his blog:

My son is gay and last night a family friend told me what a wonderful son he is. Well I know that, but then she had to go on and say something to the effect that "I bet in 30 years he will be a Christian; it would be a shame to have heaven without Norman." I bit my tongue in the interest of keeping peace.

This was in Kansas, and of course here it is the opposite of New York or San Francisco -- it is assumed in most places that you are conservative.

Hard to know what to make of Mike's friend's holy interlocutor. Sounds like "yeah, Norman's great, but he'd be even greater if he were a Christian." That could apply to anybody not perceived as one of the saved. Was the assumption that in thirty years he'd be Christian and, therefore no longer gay? Or that he'd still be gay, but also Christian, and so the Lord would cut him some slack? Confusing.

But I agree - the assumption that the Christian outlook on gayness or being saved or going to heaven or whatever, was everyone's default position was pretty clueless. And the remark, though possibly well-intentioned, was a bit of a gaffe.

An example which shows that incivility isn't limited ot the left

Said incivility : a family friend told me what a wonderful son he is.

The friend may have hopes and aspirations for the son that align with her idea of what would be good for him -- which don't mesh with the parent's or son's thoughts. Wishing something good for someone doesn't strike me as the same 'incivility' as those anecdotes cited above.

I've also heard a few conference speakers who opine about our stupid President, in an attempt to draw a few laughs. I work in a computer design profession - one which draws a lot of liberal types who've gotten liberal art degrees and thus have been exposed to years and years of liberal college professors.

I can almost be certain whenever I go to a conference in my profession that there will be two or three speakers, confident that many of their audience are liberals, defame our President and sometimes conservatives in general. NEVER, EVER do I hear the opposite (a conservative speaker taking jibes at liberals). Not even in the heydey of Bill Clinton's Lewinsky escapades.

These speakers are so pompous. To think they can effectively judge the intelligence of a man with such responsibilities when they themselves are usually embroiled in debates about details so insignificant - even in their own profession. It makes me shudder to think of these fools having the type of responsibility Bush has.

Tom, how about when a "social activist" rabbinical student does it at a meeting? (i.e. not letting his hair down among friends.) I guess they don't teach them how to behave with dignity and respect in public.
How about when your rabbi makes a crack about Southerners in an email to the congregation? (To be fair I called him on it and he apologized.) He's one of that s