A sad death.

About a week ago I witnessed Rickman talking for about 15 minutes to my leaflet-mate while I continued handing out fact sheets at "...Rachel..". He was as courteous, respectful and 'open' as you describe her mother. Said he found very little to disagree with on our 5 fact sheet, didn't mind our being out there passing them out but then pointed to number #3 where we mention these houses where standing over tunnels through which bombs where being smuggled. " Nope. No bombs. So, I guess we'll just bulldoze a house and a few people while we're here. Bad, Israelis. Bad." Anyway, they're very smooth. He then invited my friend to be on-stage at the next talkback. I wonder if that was the one you attended with her parents. I had a bad feeling as in 'set-up'? I'm glad my friend reconsidered. Fabulous report, Judith.
Pamela H

What a terrific report. Your description of the Corrie mother had me wincing with sympathy (for you).

I am curious to see how the "talk back" goes.
I saw the original production in London last year and people wearing their keffiyehs were crying as they left the Royal Court Theater. High on their moral supremacy, they will see a Israel supporter on stage like inviting a Nazi on stage after a production of "The Diary of Anne Frank". That is exactly how they see us who do support Israel's right to defend herself.
A theater full New York "progressives" against a couple of beleaugered "zionists" is just the kind of balance they want. I can see why
Mr. Rickman does not mind a "talk back" with those kind of odds. Sounds like a normal afternoon at the United Nations.

Sad death? Nope. Darwin Award.

Mr. Schwartz is correct. It is hard to feel sympathy for someone this brainless and devoid of good sense. Pail,,save your empathy for someone who deserves it.

Good writing, judith.

Robert, that's nasty. I don't have to agree with the politics surrounding her to appreciate that she shouldn't have been killed (even accidentally). I imagine her parents go through hell every day, and i felt like I was walking a tightrope making fun of her mom. I hope my description came across with a smidgen of empathy as well as exasperation for the bone-headedness I witnessed.

The psychological manipulation of these people cannot be underestimated. Judith, I think you really got to the heart of this with tremendous clarity in your post. For all the times I have heard Hamas called a “charity organization” across a dinner table in New York! These people know full well that Hamas is giving blood money to the families of suicide bombers and funding medical care in the Territories for which it is creating a need. That’s true psychological warfare and Corrie’s mother is absolutely complicit when she stands onstage with moony eyes and proclaims victimhood off limits to the families of Israeli kids who have been blown sky-high.

Her name, Rachel, foretold her struggle, the question, 'Would she overcome natural guilt over s*xuality and motherhood?' Her name implies a wish that she would, but perhaps she did not take Christianity sufficiently and became only a WAS.

While Rob's comment seems crude and nasty, it speaks to the heart of the problem; that someone who is supposedly for peace can blindly support suicide bombers and terrorists to the point of interfering in military operations, which in fact, is an attempt to help terrorists conduct operations to kill Israeli civilians. Those civilians "shouldn't" have been killed either.

Having fought in the WOT and having had comrades killed and wounded by such, I have no sympathy for their defenders. My attitude is "that's what your kid gets for aiding and abetting genocide. What side are you on?"

I have sympathy for the parents of the soldiers killed in action. Funny how we don't see many sympathetic profiles of them, unless it's framed as pitying them for their child wasting their lives fighting an unnessesary war. We sure do get plenty of unquestioned martyr-like adulation for Cindy Sheehan and the Corries, though.

Thank you for this very remarkable, informative report--and I admire your restraint in dealing with Rachel Corrie's mom. I cannot find it in myself to expend empathic concern for this woman, any more than I could for the mother of a member of the Einsatzgruppen who died in pursuit of the Final Solution.

People have been fighting over land since time immemmorial. There is nothing particularly unique about the Palestinian/Israeli conflict, except the viciousness with which it is being pursued.

People have conflicting claims over land all the time. Right now, no doubt, you can find Mexicans who will claim that Texas or California is "really" theirs. Likewise, the American Indians. Fortunately, neither group has decided that an armed insurrection is the way to go. Why? Because they have a clear appreciation of what would be lost by such a suicidal move.

There have been Jews in the Middle East for as long as there has been Arabs. Yet, strangely, there is not one scrap of land that is allowed for the Jews. Arab regimes control a massive swath of land from Morocco, across northern Africa, the entire Middle East, and across southern Asia, to Indonesia. Yet, there can't be even a postage stamp of land for the Jews? All the Arabs want to die over a completley marginal, oil-less stretch of desert? What utter foolishness, and what irresponsibility on the part of their leaders!

Every society and culture has experienced loss. The responsible societies move on, and deal with the world as it is; they don't pick and pick and pick at the injury, and work to turn it into a narcissistic injury, and a source of implacable hate. The United States could brood about "what Japan did to us," or how "Vietnam was stolen from us." What the Arabs are doing makes about as much sense.

"Mr and Mrs Corrie are just about the WASPiest WASPs you ever saw."

I would hope you would feel comfortable being described as "just about the Jewiest Jew you ever saw."

I have no sympathy for St. Pancake, nor would anyone who has seen the picture on Little Green Footballs of her hate-filled face as she burns an ersatz American flag. I believe it was Lenin who coined the phrase "useful idiots" for people like Rachel Corrie.

I would hope you would feel comfortable being described as "just about the Jewiest Jew you ever saw."

If I indeed fit the stereotypical look, I would feel comfortable being described as "really Jewish-looking" or something like that. Whatever.

Sgt Ted, I agree with you about the Gold Star mothers. I think what Corries are doing is dastardly, and their daughter was a fool. But I wouldn't put them in the category of the Einsatzgruppen. That's like calling the Jenin battle a "massacre." I try to be precise with language and concepts, under the general rubric of "If Bush is Hitler, then what do you call Hitler?"

I am sure Rachel did not know if she was guarding tunnels. If she knew that and did it anyway, she would be complicit in arms smuggling. I know some of her ISM buddies are indeed knowingly complicit. I think she was a naive tool and her parents were initially naive tools, but they have been doing this since 2004, so by now they are fellow travelers and activists. They were always "limousine liberals" and all they did was move a few steps farther to the left. Same with Michael Berg and Cindy Sheehan. They were all already on the Left in a genteel suburban way. That doesn't make them Einsatzgruppen, but it does make them the equivalent of say the Bund here, or the Mitford sisters in the UK.

If so, you'd be the first.

As a father I cannot imagine the pain of losing a child. But I would hope that I wouldn't lose my ability to use logic and reason.

The Corries are scary because of their moral relativism.

Judith,

I didn't refer to them as the Einsatzgruppen parents. That was the comment below mine.

But.

The evidence of Palestinian terrorism is very evident. Rachel Corrie shose to side with self proclaimed genocidists over a democratic state. Her parents are also very willing fools; they have the education and exposure to be able to see the truth about what is going on, yet they choose to equivocate and excuse evil, despite their heritage and the holocaust having occured within living memory. Useful idiots is the kindest term for them.

You were attempting to reason with people whose purpose was to emote. They feel bad for anyone suffering, so the circumstances leading to that suffering are irrelevant.

You proposed a thought question that was way over their heads. They might be capable of thought - even be bright people in some sense - but when all your thoughts are subjected to the emotional wash from the parietal lobes, they change into non-thoughts.

Next time try something simpler, such as "Is there anything that Palestinians could do that wouldn't be justified? Give me an example."

Judith, There was a great article on Jessica Mitford, who wrote "The American Way of Death," and her sisters in The New Republic or tnr.com recently. It suggests that their politics were, what Jean Genet would call a 'gesture,' or a personality shim to compensate for a painful identity and family relations.

You proposed a thought question that was way over their heads.

First rule of debating publically with extremists: You are aiming your message to the bystanders, not the extremists who you do not want to waste your time trying to reason with.

Some of the audience understood the question and even communicated to me that it reassured them in their own doubts. so I succeeded.

Michael, great example of this in Benjamin's My Road to Damascus.

Yes, the Corries' holy narcissistic personna is what is most important, isn't it, both to them and to those who fall for it, even when the choice also includes perceiving reality as a strong and urgent alternative. What a repugnant show the Corries and others put on. I no longer cut such people any slack at all.

But Judith, you dealt with the Corries' sanctimonious, demeaning, and even abusive tactics so well that I am jealous. I'm sure I couldn't even be in the same room with them.

By coincidence, I just saw another woman do the same thing to Tom Hayden and an ally of his on the CSPAN Book review show. It was beautiful and even seemed to rattle the Hayden duo, though it's clear they aren't going to be enlightened as to the importance of reality any time soon.

At CSPAN, this woman questioner from the audience confronted the adynamic duo calmly and personably with facts in response to Hayden's holy proclaimation that "conflict resolution" can always replace war - you know, if we lesser beings would only follow the Truth as revealed to Tom, given his intellectual and moral superiority in regard to channelling the Ideal.

She asked Hayden how conflict resolution could work when one party had as a basic reason for it's existence the avowed aim to completely destroy the other. Naturally, Hayden then proceeded illogically to blame the U.S. for creating such an intransigent party to begin with, thus malignantly foiling poor Tom's beknighted plans, but especially showing his conflict resolution theory to be incorrect, that is, unless someone surrenders first.

And, true to form, Hayden didn't answer the question. It went on similarly from there.

The Corries bring to mind what Buddhists call "idiot compassion."

How ironic. What really led to Rachel's death? EXACTLY the same twisted lies (about Israelis and Palestinians) that her mother repeats.

You have reminded me of an event over 40 years ago at Trinity College, Hartford. All of the top leadership of the Communist Party USA visited the campus and gave talks on the wonderful future that awaited us all when the Communist Party had taken over and the state had been allowed to wither away.

This was before the protest era. Nobody waved signs, nobody shouted slogans, everybody in the lecture hall listened attentively.

A question-and-answer period began when the set speeches were over. It quickly became apparent that the entire Political Science Department -professors and students - had come to this event. They all had questions, and their questions probed every faulty piece of logic in the Communist arguments The questions were backed by solid examples from real-world Communist take-overs. Non-answers didn't work; the next person called on would generally ask the same question with somewhat different wording, or ask for "a few more details" or "a clarification" of the non-answer, pointing out that it had been a non-answer. By the end of the session, the Party leaders had been reduced to total incoherence. It was one of the most devastating intellectual put-downs that I have ever witnessed.

Once upon a time, college and university political science departements were not all left-liberal. Once upon a time, discussions there were based on thinking, not on emotion. Someday, maybe, the USA will fully recover from Vietnam. But it hasn't happened yet.

I was there as a gofer for the college radio station, which tape-recorded the entire event. I wonder if a copy of that tape still exists.

Sounds like a self-righteous, anti-Israeli hate fest. You'd think they'd at least pretend not to be biased by inviting ONE pro-Israeli, but no. Well at least their true agenda was out in the open for all to see. The sad part is that most of the audience was probably filled with sympathizing Jews. Sigh :(

Robert was dead on. Leaving aside Rachel Corrie's politics, her action was suicidal. Absolutely. The driver simply can't see anything low and in front of his machine. She may as well have stepped on a landmine, deliberately. Dead is dead.
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/engineer_vehicles/bulldozers/D9_D10.html

The more I think about it the more convinced I am that she was a sacrificial goat. The pals have a LOT of experience 'interacting' with the IDF and are constantly refining and adapting their tactics. There's no way in hell that one of THEM would have lain down in front of a moving D9; there'd have been no point. How much press coverage would that have received? But a sweet young thing from America...?
The Corrie Chorus can't/won't admit that because that would mean their darling Rachel died for nothing; no martyrhood, no Joan of Arc she, no heroin, just a silly girl who opened the wrong door.

Considering how the far left are so concerned about Americans supposedly dying for lies in the Middle East they seem totally unconcerned about people like Rachel Corrie who absolutely died for lies. The left should be protesting the Palestians leadership who rejected peace for threats of genocide everyday for the last fifty years starting with the grand Mufti's dealings with Hitler.

This just in:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3331460,00.html

Judith - This was a terrific piece.

Your experience at the talkback echoes to a t my experience at a talk by anti-Israel lecturer Alison Weir. I went to a lecture of hers at Sonoma State University earlier this year and not one question by those with an opposing view was answeredf. In addition, I witnessed all too well the overlaid Palestinian grief and Narcissism of which yo wrote so eruditely.

I wrote about it at my site and in a piece that was published in the Sonoma State Star, the student newspaper:

http://www.sonomastatestar.com/media/paper846/news/2006/02/15/Editorial/AntiSemitism.At.Sonoma.State-1612521.shtml?norewrite&sourcedomain=www.sonomastatestar.com

It's sad that people like Corrie's parents are so blinded by grief that they can't find some middle ground.
Sadly it's exasperating as hell, isn't it?

"Palestinian rescue officials pull one body out of rubble as search continues for undetermined number of others"

Associated Press Published: 11.25.06, 19:42

"A tunnel under the border between the Gaza Strip and Egypt collapsed on Saturday, but Palestinian security officials weren't immediately able to say whether it served to smuggle contraband or weapons to Palestinian gunmen".

>> The Rachel Corrie Memorial tunnel no doubt.

Judith, an additional point:

I've read that the particular house Rachel was "defending" was uninhabited and used solely as cover for arms-smuggling tunnels (smuggling arms in violation of Oslo as well as drugs, prostitutes, etc).

Hi, independent Observer.

The house that the late Ms. Corrie was defending belonged to two ordinary Palestinian families: A Palestinian pharmacist, Dr. Samir Nasrallah, his wife and three children, and his brother (whose name I forget) and his wife and two children lived on the 2nd floor.

independentminded:

How interesting that the homeowners' surname is "Nasrallah".

Regardless, neither Hamas nor Hezbollah are the slightest bit shy when it comes to using human shields, whether it's concealing rocket launchers, bomb factories or smuggling tunnels. You'll find them in residential areas, schools, mosques and hospitals, so the mere fact that one of the homeowners is a pharmacist proves nothing, one way or another.

I find the postings here horrifyingly zionist...Guess I shouldnt be surprised, though.

Yeah, we're Zionists. What's horrifying about that?

One does not have to approve of Israel's 40-year occupation of West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem, with its illegal building of settlements on those lands, demolition of Palestinian's homes, and the harsh treatment of the civilians residing in those territories to realize that, along with the wreckless and criminally irresponsible actions and behaviour of the Israeli soldiers operating the bulldozer, Ms. Corrie and her friends/colleagues in the ISM also did not use the best judgement, which also contributed to the loss of Ms. Corrie's life.

One does not have to approve of Israel's 40-year occupation of West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem, with its illegal building of settlements on those lands, demolition of Palestinian's homes, and the harsh treatment of the civilians residing in those territories to realize that, along with the wreckless and criminally irresponsible actions and behaviour of the Israeli soldiers operating the bulldozer, Ms. Corrie and her friends/colleagues in the ISM also did not use the best judgement, which also contributed to the loss of Ms. Corrie's life.

One does not have to approve of Israel's 40-year occupation of West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem, with its illegal building of settlements on those lands, demolition of Palestinian's homes, and the harsh treatment of the civilians residing in those territories to realize that, along with the reckless and criminally irresponsible actions and behaviour of the Israeli soldiers operating the bulldozer, Ms. Corrie and her friends/colleagues in the ISM also did not use the best judgement, which also contributed to the loss of Ms. Corrie's life.