But if the report is correct, the analogy was not between the mass murder of Jews and anything, but between conditions in the Warsaw ghetto and conditions in Ramallah. Of course the rhetoric is powerful, and deliberate, and unhelpful. That doesn't make the comparison itself invalid, though it weakens it by diverting attention to the rhetoric.

I have no hotline to the mind of a German Catholic bishop, being none of those three things myself, but I hope none of them is seriously suggesting that trainloads of Palestinians are being carted off to Israel and gassed. Shut inside a wall in the hope that they will just die and solve the problem, without the need for any intervention? Closer to the truth. Killed on the spot for the most minor infraction of arbitrary regulations? Happens regularly. Treated as subhuman vermin by their gaolers? Every single day.

I have stood next to the two remaining fragments of the wall of the Warsaw ghetto, touched their bricks, and spoken to the Jewish resident who with his son first created a memorial there, before the city adopted the site officially. I found my visit to the ghetto every bit as moving as my earlier visit to Dachau, and certainly have no sympathy with anyone wishing to diminish the memory of the victims of either hell-hole. There are undeniable similarities in the situation of the ghetto inmates and present-day Palestinians, though I remain unconvinced of the utility of banging on about them. After all, as the present discussion shows, it simply allows attention to be diverted from the real, current issue of Palestinian suffering onto the historical one of the Holocaust.

To sum up: just because the bishops were insensitive and offensive doesn't mean that what they said wasn't true. Just because it was true doesn't mean it was even slightly helpful to the cause of the people in whom they claim to have been taking an interest. But then, whoever expected German Catholic bishops to be relevant to anything much?

Which part of the Warsaw ghetto experience are they talking about?

When the entire population of Jews that were not elsewhere killed were shipped there from every corner of Poland and forced to live in incredibly cramped conditions? The starvation? The fact that they weren't allowed outside the ghetto to go anywhere? The fact that they had no political rights and no possession - all of which had been taken from them to support the generous German social benefits? The people - adults and children - lying down to die of starvation on the city streets with hardly anyone giving them a second glance after a while, because this was so common?

The fact that, after a few years, Germans and Poles were shipping them out to crematoriums? The fact that once they stood together and fought an action against the Germans, and brought the German army to a standstill for a few days, the Germans eventually proceeded to set on fire the entire ghetto, so that everyone who was left, with the exception of very few survivors, perished in the fire?

You know, I'm not seeing the similarity Rob.

Gaza is crowded; the West Bank, of which Ramallah is a part, is not. They also have some beautiful territory in the West Bank - and self government, people are not starving to death in the streets; they have hospitals.

How is it that you think these situations are cognate? Because the crossing postss are shocking to a European? And the Wall is ugly and looks like a scar on the land?

Well, none of those conditions existed before 2000. The idea that they should be free to suicide bomb people wherever they like with no one impeding them is ridiculous, and I know you don't agree with that.

In response to Rob, there is nothing vaguely similar between the Warsaw Ghetto and Ramallah. Conditions? How many Jews were dying daily in the Ghetto vs. how many Palestinians are killed? Not to say each death isn't a tragedy, but let's go a bit farther here (and are Palestinians shot EVERY DAY in large numbers? Slightest infraction? Like, amassing bombs to use on Israelis?

What threat had the Jews of Poland and those rounded up into the Ghetto made to the Germans? Had they promised to take over their land and annihilate them? Had they attacked and bombed the Germans on their own turf prior to being rounded up?

Could it just be that the cause of any Palestinian "suffering" is...the Palestinians? They can't bother making peace, they just amass more guns instead of building anything.

The Jews in the ghetto did not want to hurt anyone. Most Palestinians still hope and pray to destroy Israel eventually.

Conditions? The conditions are not remotely close. Yes, they are onerous for the Palestinians, it can't be a pleasant life, but that just points out the insanity of their intransigence. They could reverse their conditions by making a true peace. The inhabitants of the Ghetto were marked for complete extermination.

There is NO comparison. Day-to-day life in the ghetto vs. the WEst Bank? Sorry, there is no way to approximate the two. The Germans are just part of the great anti-Semitic wave going through Europe, pure and simple, and any attempt to whitewash it, as you did, is sickening and absurdly, patently wrong.

Maurice - blaming the Palestinians for their suffering is like blaming the Jews for the ghetto. If you're a Nazi, say so. Otherowse don;t talk like one.

"Slightest infraction" - like absent-mindedly wandering onto what used to be their farm until in was expropriated by settlers. Most of the Palestinians killed by the IDF have never even seen a bomb.

"Most Palestinians still hope and pray to detroy Isaral eventually". And next you'll ask us to believe - what? That Jews make passover matsohs out of dead babies? Try not to talk total garbage.

"That just points out the insanity of their intransigence". Remind me which side of the conflict consdoer that there is no other sode t negotiate with? Which side made no move until Sharon's withdrawal from Gaza (which it now whines about) to implement any part of any peace deal? Do you seriously believe that Israel has ever hadany consistent intention of making peace, or are you just lying in the hope that the rest of us will buy it? One might as well say that the suicide bombings in Israel "point out the insanity of their intransigence".

"The great anti-semitic wave" -bwahahahaha. the stock answer oto any criticism of Israeli policy is that the whole of the planet is against it. leavin aside the possibility that maybe that could be because Israel's behaviour is unacceptable to the rest of the planet, do you imagine that Israel would have been founded in the first place, let alone backed to the hilt through all its breaches of law and morality, if the rest of the world wasn't leaning over backwards to make excuses for it? The moment Israel - if it continues on its current course - is judged by the standards applied to all other nations is the moment it ceases to exist.

Alcibiades - I don't see the majority of Palestinians being allowed out of their "ghetto" to go anywhere. As for their political rights, when they freely elected a government they were punished for not electing the one that Israel wanted. Such enviable political freedom. They have hospitals - which they are routinely prevented from accessing. Possession - they have their homes destroyed in illegal collective punishments (exactly what happened to the Polish Jews) and they have their land stolen and given to illegal settlers. These are Israeli rather than German, but otherwise I see no distinction there.

Are you trying to tell me that Israelis give a second glance to starving Palestinians? Only, as far as I can tell, to see whether they are too thin to be useful as human shields.

I believe I pointed out that the Palestinians were not being shipped off to extermination, so you can keep that straw man for when you get chilly. Likewise, you correctly point out that I'm no apologist for unrestrained suicide bombing, though you do so in such a way as to sort of imply that I might be, which is a nice try.

Yes, the crossing posts (or more accurately the human rights abuses occurring daily at them) are shocking to Europeans. If they don't shock Americans, that's your shame, not mine. If I didn't care about what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians, why on earth would I have cared about what the Germans did to the Jews? It's a question of what, not who.

"None of these conditions existed before 2000." So up to then, the Occupied Territories were some kind of Disneyland? Thirty-three years of occupation and exploitation just get erased from your memory as inconvenient? Imagine if the Holocaust could be erased that simply. Perhaps you should have a word with Ahmedinajad about that.

And if you really believe that the objection to the expropriation wall is that it is ugly then you are not simply misguided but actually stupid. What part of "built inside someone else's country" don't you get? You think it's a question of aesthetics, as though Israel were building wind farms? Do you think the reason I shuddered at the touch of the ghetto wall in Warsaw was that its bricks were the wrong shade of russet? Mostly, your comments were foolish: that one was sick.