Becoming a Republican because fringe liberals are wacko makes as much sense as becoming a Democrat because fringe conservatives are racist thugs.

While that is almost true, Jewish Athiest, there are differences in how both sides currently treat their wackos.

The sad truth is the right has become much better at policing itself than the left.

I've noted only semi-facetiously that the right wing gives its loud mouthed idiots radio talk shows, while the left elects theirs to congress.

By and large, the things the left gets a pass on, like blatant corruption, the right clamps down on. Randy Cunningham, war hero, corrupt congressman, is gone. Jefferson is not. Murtha is not.

When Pat Robertson speaks, most of the right looks away in embarrassment, like when an older and very autistic family member suddenly announces "I like to Fart!" during a solemn ceremony or legal proceeding. When Jimmy Carter (or, where is Michael Moore these days?) speaks, it is actually taken seriously.

It doesn't matter whether you think the US should evacuate Iraq tommorow or fight as long as it takes, when Murtha babbles about Iraq being in range of US fighter aircraft from Okinawa, it is an old man in need of medication, and NOT a reasonable basis for a discussion of geopolitical strategy, and the Left as a rule does not recognize this.

So the bottom line is, what is the accepted status of the Fringe in each group?
I find this exceptionally telling- most of the far far right fringe, the KKK, skinheads, etc, have by now realized they have more in common with the far left fringe than they do the basic right. When will the left disown the left fringe to the same extent?

Ben

Cozying up to dictators, Islamists, and terrorists? You mean like Mubarak, the Saudi royal family, and the Mujahedeen Al Kalq? The right would never do that. Oh wait.

Well, those poor 'Realists' were so bound to economic stability that they soon thought that was the only kind around. Those 'realists' never have come to terms with stability and peace not meaning the same thing, sad to say. Of course those are the self-same folks that saw the USSR continuing onwards at least until 2030 if not longer... apparently their entire grasp of what the 'real world' *is* was tenuous at best. And now that they will not actually come forward to answer for the problems they caused, by supporting thugs, tyrants, dictators and despots, all in a search for 'realistic' peace, we are stuck with a much more dangerous world.

The Transnational Progressivist Left, on the other hand, wish to see the Nation State dissolved to get their new order in place, where the educated elite are so benign as to decide which group deserves rights and which others don't. These are the ones that deny that there are any long term consequences to defeat by donning rose colored glasses that limit their historical intake only to years with a 196_ and higher prefix. Often they don't get past 198_ prefixes. By working hard to lump folks into groups and then allow 'group blame' to fall on various ones for various reasons, they are trying their hardest to strip out the idea that Individuals have rights *as* individuals. They also work very hard at trying to so hamstring Nations by putting forth that one can only defend their Nation if a larger consensus allows it, that, soon, Nations will become meaningless. Unfortunately they have been joined in this by Terrorists that have picked up on this concept and use illegitimate warfare to delegitimize that a Nation State's military is valid for defense of that Nation.

Taken together the Right has this idea that trade trumps liberty and the Left has this idea that we don't need Nations and only need to assign rights that a single group sees as valid. What is left out in the cold is that old concept of the Universal Rights of Man as Individuals. The Right prefers stability to get economics going, even when it does not increase liberty one bit. The Left moves to remove the basis for liberty as valid within Nation States by removing the Nation State as a concept. And the terrorists have stark disagreement with *who* the ruling group will be, but will utilize the Left and threaten economic targets so as to also work their destructive ways.

Vast oceans are no longer protection against this enemy, that already has agents here and is building power bases in this hemisphere. Nor are huge armies the answer, as these barbarians do not wage legitimate warfare. There is no protection from this until the polarized political Elite let go of their death-grip on ideas that will get us all enslaved or just killed. As the Left was so assiduously touting through the 1980's and '90's, this is, indeed, 'a smal world after all'. Time to wake up and realize that this Global Village has some pretty nasty neighborhoods with quite some number of thugs and hooligans running around. We can stand on our rights and with our friends and allies to address these... or die trying.

It is very strange to hear those very same Leftists now claiming that one can retreat from this world... and the Right still proclaiming that unregulated free trade makes people free, while it seems to be offering cheap ways to spread deadly weapons further than had ever been imagined in the history of mankind. Neither of these *work* as ideological bases. They are not founded on *anything*, save cowardice and seeking to abjure responsibility and blame anyone save the individual you see in the mirror each morning.

The pleasant dream of the Cold War is over.

Welcome to the nightmare that was created from that dream.

As Churchill said: 'When marching through hell... don't stop.'

And there is no turning back to *anything*. Time to let go of those ideological boat anchors, before they drag us swiftly into the abyss.

Oh my Racist leftists. When did you figure this one out. I moved left several years ago if you would read much of what I write.Your very slow on the uptake. lol Tom Metzger

Amusing that Cinnamon links without apparent irony to the SFGate article (now tidied up) in which she originally published the howling absurdity that the whole country had witnessed the sight pf planes flying into the Pentagon.